Just so we're clear, Anne, vaccinations do not cause disease. A recent JAMA study hypothesizes that a weaker version of the shot may have caused problems in cases where kids didn't get the required booster afterwards, but all medical evidence points to the necessity for parents to have their children vaccinated on schedule:

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1273011

Matt, that is quite a big claim you make. You seem to be strongly biased on this topic. Is your opinion based on one study done by the AMA?

It's an equally big claim to say that vaccines make people sick. No child is given a live form of the pertussis vaccine. It's all inert. The best medical evidence available from the World Health Organization and Centers for Disease Control all suggest that parents should keep their kids updated on a regular immunization schedule. Bias doesn't enter into it when you're dealing with science.

Wow Matt I am very surprised to read your stance on the topic is so firm that we are to only believe what medical doctors and medical researchers state as fact. I don't understand how you can make such claims. I respect your OPINION which is what it is and frankly nothing more. Perhaps Anne's comment above was biased but she didn't state it as fact and as proof of anything. She said it was time to take another look at the vaccine and it's effectiveness. Your statement is based on what the medical world tells you and not anything else. That is not exactly a well rounded, researched and evaluated conclusion based on years of research on all sides of this topic. Some of us have spent years researching and evaluating and decision making on what's best for our families and that should be respected without an opinion based attack in return. If everyone believed everything the medical community said all the time then that would make them god like, omniscient, and they are but human, and flawed, and have made many mistakes with medicines and vaccines. Some even believe that greed within the Pharmaceutical companies drives them to push such flawed and possibly harmful or deadly toxic substances. If you argue with that then that is fine.. and perhaps you live in a country where everyone is honest and loving and care only about the good of all people with no thought of material gain. Where is that again??

I've spent five years just about in public health before taking this job, and I can tell you, having worked alongside the folks who organize the NJ Immunization Information database for pediatricians in South Jersey that the best available medical evidence the world over is that kids need regular immunizatons to develop their immune systems. That's not blind faith or a slavish devotion to pet theories, that's my assessment of the research on the table. I trust my kid's pediatrician when he says the same to me. I'm not saying you have to agree but it is inaccurate to say that vaccines cause diseases.

God bless you Anne

Matt is full of it people I remember the cigerette commercials on Tv featuring Medical doctors paid by tobacco companies to tell us about their health bennifits !!!!!!!! What a windfall to big PHARMA TO TREAT ALL TEASE DISEASES, I COULD NEVER BELIEVE THAT THEY MIGHT CAUSE A FEW TO ENCOURAGE PROFIT!!! NOOOO WAY CURRUP PAID OFF GOVERNMENT INSPECTORS WOULD NEVER LOOK THE OTHER WAY!!! I know of a friend who's brothers kid was made int an autistic moron by vaccination. The family broke up under the pain of a beautiful little girl destroyed, the child institutionalized , and my friends brother blew his brains out over the sorrow found in a hotel room!!! we should have a right over what goes into our blood stream and bodies!! www.infowars.com

You had me up until the infowars reference....

Sal lost me right after the cigeratte commercial comment.

Losing me here : Big Pharma makes minimal, if any, profit from vaccinations.
Going over the edge - referred to a kid he claims to know as an "autistic moron"
Dropped into the abyss - Infowars . IE: Conspiracy Kook Central

@Anne - where did your read that "the ones getting sick are the vaccinated ones." ?

Aaaand, educate yourself before you find out that Thimerosal (What you call "Mercury") has been removed from kids vaccines for years now - OR was never EVER part of it.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

Giving your kid a tuna sandwich has more mercury in it than exposing them to a broken CFL bulb.

Thanks Dan, you almost got 'it' :) ...and here's a link showing that Thiomersal was to be eliminated for no good reason back in 1999.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/

You're on your way!! :)

Not really taking sides here, but Thimerosal AKA "mercury" has not been in vaccines for several years now.

Hi Michelle,

Sanofi Pasteur Inc for DTap as of June 2012 uses 0.3 µg/0.5 mL Mercury and .00012% Thiomersal for children older than 6 (there are ten other vacs as well that contain it)

The chem stated is not they only issue. Other flesh tissues and chemicals etc that are put in the various shots and vacs are of concern too. Even more so are the politics that go along with the shots themselves.

My simple post is just to educate oneself, explore what you're not being told by the pharm industry :) There are many many topics when it comes to human health and the government summing it all up with a needle is egregious.

*ethylmercury

Indeed. More drug pushing to rake in the big $$. Seems like there needs to be an article also posted that isn't written from someone in big Pharm's pocket.

MBG, If you'd like to write a letter to the editor on this topic, we always welcome them. Just email it to matt.skoufalos@patch.com with "Letter to the editor" in the subject line so he doesn't miss it. Thanks!

Lamebrain Christians?

Devil?

Communism?

Praying earnestly?

Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy?

Florida and the ocean?

...now that is an LOL moment right there.

Listen Ric, you are routinely discredited on this page, and it shows with every neurotic post you make. Pathetic how people lap up every word the various government agencies mandate to us. I could post links and data with research and show others who approach the subject with some basic knowledge, but it would all go over your head. So why bother.

Ric, thank you for your assumptions at where I get my information from and who I align my beliefs with (I am not a Christian and I don't believe in the devil and I don't pray to God to ask for anything) but I have no interest in defending my beliefs and choices. You are free to vaccinate and I am free to not vaccinate. Ain't America grand? Well, that is when it is not being destroyed by corporate greed...

Ric, all MBG and Gary simply stated was about getting info and understand the pharmaceutical involvement ....and you come lashing out with idiotic, insulting and irrelevant remarks. Sounds like you've had one too many shots there, big guy.

@Concerned, unless you are a medical doctor, you lack the knowledge to dispense medical advice. This whole vaccine controversy is junk science promoted by uneducated people who are egged on by CBN and others. It needlessly risks the lives of many innocent victims. I do not care if any of you do not take vaccines. But none of you have the right to risk the lives of others. Bottom line is: I trust the doctors a whole lot more than I would trust any of you laymen. Stop putting the lives of innocents at risk. That is unforgivable.

I lack knowledge lol, well thank you for your synopsis, Ric. I will take that and file it somewhere.

But I should have seen my lashing from you too. Guess that is my welcoming to the now "Ric's Page Show" ...pardon me. Oh btw Ric, this still has nothing to due with Christians, doesn't matter how much you post, that won't change.
And Ric, are the same medical doctors that come from the medical schools that teach virtually no nutrition are who you trust? Here's a little 411 for you, out of the approximate 120 or so medical schools that exist, only about a dozen mandate one course that is all of about 4-8 hours on nutrition. 'Doctors' only get training in critical care Ric. Doctors perform medical errors everyday Ric. Doctors are paid more by prescribing meds than their actual practice of exam fees, RIc. ...and here is another little nugget for you, on average 106,000 Americans are killed every year from prescription pills (that are not from overdoes) that number is over 500,000 admitted patients to the ER for overdoses.

But thank you for playing a raging combat keyboard Vet here Ric. It makes for better silliness as I screen shot this stuff and repost it on my blogs. Please, keep going, I've got all day to finish up some writing and need some comic relief.

"I could post links and data with research and show others who approach the subject with some basic knowledge, but it would all go over your head. So why bother"

Why don't you post your links ? Promise I'll read them. Guarantee they won't go over my head.

Stop posting Ric.

This has nothing to due with Christianity.

Again, more nonsense names you bring up.

And by the way Ric, the link you posted is beyond ridiculous and shows how easily you are 'duped'. Ric, about 85% of this country is Christian, it would be in par that 85%ish of the country would not vaccinate if this anti-vaccinate movement where actually to be a Christian movement.

Grow up Ric.

@Gary, you never went to medical school and you do not have a medical license. Stop dispensing medical advice. No one should trust you over a doctor's advice.

Do not take vaccines but you do not have the right to put others at risk because you are uneducated..

Your rhetoric is winding down and you've run out corners to hide, Ric. Resorting to the "you are not a...." and "you never...." is the standard for cowards.

People: Educate before you take a pill, educate when you get diagnosed with a symptom, educate yourself on the options, educate and research. Educate yourself on stress management, nutrition, sleep cycles and exercise. Take personal responsibility.

Thanks Dan, you almost got 'it' :) ...and here's a link showing that Thiomersal was to be eliminated for no good reason back in 1999.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/

:thumbsup:

You only have to see the deviating effects on childhood illness once in your life to realize the the benefits of getting a child immunized outweigh extremely small risks.

Something pharm companies do not want you to know; time. Ask your doctor about illnesses, and what time frame is the illness taking place? After the 1940's when the pharm companies started their campaign for shots? ,,or after the staggering numbers dropped and steadily came down from 50-100 years prior to the pharm companies campaign?

My point is; Don't let doctors, media, water cooler talk and angry internet randoms bully you into a move in which they don't have to live with the consequences. Same thing goes with aluminum in deodorant, formaldehyde in home goods and BPA in our food and the many other chemicals that secretly are put into our lives that goes uncontested.

....and by the, nutrition, hygiene, sanitation, sterilization and routine cleaning prevents and stops most strains....we also have an immune system too :)

Only try to help...as this piece was posted does NOT give any alternatives, or truth of history, does not tell about reactions, deaths, recalls and most galling, as always hides the self peered studies. The list goes on of course...

....Thinking, it's free but hard and rarely done...*not calling you dumb Dan*, just that I'm pointing out that it's a problem having this processed world getting jammed down our throats everyday.

Gary, it's a letter to the editor. It doesn't need to offer alternative points of view any more than you need to accept what it says. As Lauren mentioned above, feel free to write your own and we can run it too.

Matt, the piece opens with 'dear editor', however it is not an opinion from a member of this forum, it's a faceless, spammed and random letter from a government outfit. Which makes it biased and propaganda. **Mary E. O'Dowd is not responding to this, her own 'dear editor' letter** This 'letter' is an official stance that comes from the government backed by the pharmaceutical industry, not a letter from a member of the Patch forum. And look what a good job of the drubbing they've done to the public. They've got the public so wired that the mere concept that washing hands with soap and keeping their kid and themselves clean is a preposterous and absurd notion. 'Concerned', 'MBG' and myself are just expressing the fact there is more to this subject of out breaks than 'shots'.

I have no problem with a 'dear editor', but this is not a 'dear editor' letter. And this 'dear editor letter' was splashed on the Collingswood's Patch front page as the lead story, not under a tab, where it should have been, such as the 'News- Announcements' or 'Events- Government'.

Gary B - I'm not saying it's a good idea to wash my kids hands with anti-bacterial soap. I realize that we need "germs" in our lives to keep our own immune systems functional. (War of the worlds anyone?) That is the point of immunizations, they don't inject you with a "cure", they allow your own body to "make the cure".

There is a line between giving your kid 20 shots, and 20 shots at once. We spaced our child's shots out. More trips to the dr, sure.. more pain per trip, sure.. but I think it was the right thing to do.

We try to live as health as we can within reason in 2012. Using medication as needed, and only when needed is key. There is a medium between "use everything all the time" and "use nothing".

Well said Dan, I get were you are coming from and respect your position.

Just further expanding on my original post; People want to talk about epidemics with Hep B and the Rotavirus etc and at the same time not call obesity, Autism and heart disease epidemics because there is no pill or vaccine. People are not helpless victims as much as our government and media makes us out to be, it's quite the contrary, we as individuals are the most formidable force :)
I'm just always trying to get people to have the curiosity and think for themselves!

A troll?
You claim you can post links supporting your arguments. When I ask you to do it you call me a troll.
Take a look in the mirror. Gonna spout off nonsense either back it up or take your BS home.

I got facts, I got links.blah blah. No, I won't post them.

What a joke.

Post what you like all you like. Nobody is stopping you. Have a good time.

I'm not getting in senseless dribble anymore with this post. You have no sincere intentions, so yes, that makes you a troll. It's easy to smell rats actually.

A real discussion? Ohhh you mean by blasting Christians? Bringing up irrelevant celebrity causes? that wasn't ad hominem LOL no not one bit.

You know the 'truth' anyways mtwnres; you searched Google for a hospital link :) ,,,but be careful, Ric is gonna track you down too for dispensing medical advice without you being a doctor (it's common practice around here to assume one is not a 'titled' individual and attack)

I share plenty on my WordPress, FB fanpage and YouTube channel...everything from nutrition, exercise, stress management, gardening, budgeting, how to make cold boxes to toothpaste. ...and that is for an audience that has had enough of your kind and the world's ridiculousness. Have fun with your health, you've earned it. ....Keep attacking mtwnres, it's a strong stance to take in life.

Don't associate me with what other people write. You got problems with Ric calling you names,address that to him.

You made claims of having facts, how about backing them up.

Funny you knock me for using a search engine. Where do you get your info ?
Did you complete the research and publish it all yourself ?
Didn't think so.

PS- I'm not dispensing medical information. I'm posting links to information produced by professionals that are qualified to do so.
Maybe you'd be taken a bit more seriously if you did the same.

Your FB fanpage, Wordpress and youtube channel . Ok.
I guess I can find those by searching Gary B ?

Rule number one: ~no snakes in my garden~

Enjoy your healthy happy fulfilling life :) Ciao

@ Gary B
You forgot to post your rule #2

When someone calls me out on my BS, revert to rule #1

"Other people with knowledge scare me, runaway."

Hi mtwnres! Have a good evening, again :) ...Be sure to stop by for your daily stalking routine tomorrow, I'll be here and I'll even say Hi, again,,,take care, sport :)

Factors That Discourage Vaccine Making
"Recent vaccine shortages are not coincidental, nor do they represent short-lived, easily fixable problems in the vaccine industry. Rather, several market forces explain why pharmaceutical companies are gradually abandoning vaccines."

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/24/3/622.full

@mtwnres - an illuminating read. Thanks for that.

Matt - You're welcome.

I was surprised to see the comments about this being about big business and money, that's a new one I hadn't seen before. Probably because the faux scientific arguments - and those scientists who championed them - have steadily been discredited.

The difference is that the vaccine makers get a pass on any adverse reactions while the handgun makers don't.

I see it like this - You are endangering the life of my kid because of a lack of personal responsibility.

Tilt that mirror just ever so slightly and you'll see yourself in it.

I would venture to guess that wherever your kids go to school, there are probably a slew of children there without vaccines. It does not have to be disclosed. I know there are several unvaccinated children at my kids school. I know this because I happen to know their parents and they have offered this information voluntarily. Unless you homeschool, there's not much you can do about that.

Ah, junk science.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgz5-8chSlk

Wow.. Funny, when I visit that website I feel like they just want you to be informed and than track any suspected after effects from immunization.

Not so much anti-vaccine. But I realize after reading the Wikipedia entry, that seems to be their motive.

No prob Michelle :) Left a note on your board, have a great night (it was saying 'pending approval')

It's my understanding that the big fear is damage to the child's heath. So much junk science out there its hard to filter out noise/vs being educated. A lot of people claim that shots "gave" their kids autistic traits. However, what is the case is that the traits often show up at the age when a child is scheduled to receive certain shots. (For example, MMR is given at 15-18 months, and then again at a later date..)

Doctors are now trained better to detect autistic traits at younger and younger ages. While there is still no know "cause" of autism - new data comes out every day.

Just yesterday a medical journal pointed to older father's as being the cause due to mutated sperm. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/health/fathers-age-is-linked-to-risk-of-autism-and-schizophrenia.html .

Chris - This is a link from CHOP (which is very much pro vaccine) http://www.chop.edu/export/download/pdfs/articles/vaccine-education-center/too-many-vaccines.pdf. Other sites I've seen have pretty much matched that number.