This is a bad deal for Collingswood.

Maybe if they lowered the condo fees per month-$500 which is alot of money for what???? ....more people would be interested in purchasing the units. I have talked to alot of people and this was the main reason why they would not purchase a unit.

I can't believe how so much of this rhetoric is the same crap that happens in places like Camden. Tax abatements don't fund our public schools, and tax abatements aren't fair to every resident who is forced to pay 100% of their fair share in order to keep the economic engine churning. This is lunacy! And if nothing else, WHY THE HELL 25 years! Tax abatements are typically 5-10 years! We're giving Ingerman almost 3 decades to mess with our downtown. And we have no say in the rents or the qualification process for tenants. Before you know it the hood rats from Camden will be shacking up on Haddon Avenue! Manley and his goons need to be stopped.

With all due respect to the comment above, I find it impossible to believe that some human being with a whole brain is paying over $2,000/month for a one bedroom. I'm sorry...I don't believe it one bit. And if you wouldn't mind...could you please elaborate on your comments? I don't understand how there are obvious issues, yet they aren't coming from the lumberyard.

Perhaps I should elaborate, because I was not discussing the lumberyard in its current state. I work in the field of real estate development, and I've worked with Ingerman on a number of occasions. They're methodology and construction practices are crap. Secondly, this whole process - from the abatement and its terms to the finer details of how this final phase will operate - is lacking serious planning. Putting over 60 one bedroom apartments in a midrise building on Haddon ave is not some "smart growth/transit village" pill. In fact, most of this plan involves a lot of wishful thinking. If you have a bunch of new apartments...especially under the Ingerman "brand"...you're going to have trouble. It's mind blowing that "parking" and "density" are the only two issues being discussed. Theres a myriad of issues with a project like this. And even though the residents of Collingswood are mostly intelligent and well meaning, they're certainly not experts on development. This whole project is being shoved through the system by a bunch of political hacks who know just enough to be dangerous. And maley is so arrogant and egotistical, he would never in a million years concede a point.

The final phase should be condos that are built greener, better, and cheaper, via better construction techniques such as prefabricated construction. Get the building FHA certified so the buyer pool isn't limited to conventional buyers. Lower the asking prices to reflect market value. Offer a 5, 7, or 10 year abatement. And whatever doesn't sell, you rent (as is already planned). And you sell off units as the market permits. This way you have a building that is built better, continues with the goal of increasing tax revenue and home ownership, and you still achieve long range goals through a flexible plan that operates within the needs and economic constraints of today and tomorrow. Having Ingerman shacked up on Haddon Ave for 25 years is a BAD idea. With Collingswood's borders already under fire and gradual encroachment from the surrounding areas, "white flight" is right around the proverbial corner.

Well I defer to your judgement of Ingerman and their peer viewed practices.
Parking will be an issue, from what info has been made available, that no garage will be constructed in the new phased building....and yes, 60 one bedrooms will be translating into many parking conundrums.

I have no idea what the price point will be for the new phase, but I will say this, if it's going to be a quasi 'low income' target point, this theory of having the new phase help bolster Haddon Ave businesses will be a complete failure.
There is unforgivably too much 'wait and see' I suppose. Thanks Joseph for your comments and insight.

Interestingly, there will be at least one additional project built, at the old Russell Cast Stone which will beat the pants off of the Ingerman project. It will be a green development with many units with garages and adequate and convenient surface parking. It is also closer to the PATCO and you have an better developer. Understand that if the PILOT amounts are correct, the town gets the bulk of the money and the county gets some. The schools get nothing without a separate agreement with the town. This extra money is probably necessary to pay for the the bonds/losses that the town incurred from the failed development. I suspect that is why 25 years in necessary. My question is where are the Ingerman employees going to park?

I was told that Ingerman will occupy "95%" of the street level store front as to what has been zoned commercial space. Obviously retail shops and other businesses are not part of Ingerman's plans. I understand they need an office and a demo unit to work out of and promote the project, but again the number of 95% seems to be out of line and does nothing to promote and expand our downtown.

Last I heard, the plan was for 51 single-bedroom apartments. No mention of what they estimate the rents to be, or why the Boro agreed to ONLY single-bedroom units. Sounds like they are desperate to just put ANYTHING in that lot to say its done.

When I looked at the lease-buy options at the Lumberyard Im pretty sure the 2-bedroom "Cherry" Unit was $2000/mo, and no HOA fees. Im hoping the unfinished Phase III section will have similar units for long term renting (not lease-buy) when they complete it. $1800-$2000 is a fair price depending on the sq-ft and finishes.

Id be in favor of another floor or two added to the plan if it meant they were building a mixture of floor-plans, a balance range of price points ($1000-$2200 for 1-3 bedrooms), and address the parking concerns.

Right on! thanks for the clarification... Could you clarify where buildings 1 and 2 will be?

Do those correspond to the former lumberyard Phases III and IV? or are they both in the Phase IV (corner of Powell and Haddon) lot?

Why is it that so many people jump to conculsions before hearing all the facts. Those of us that live in the Lumberyard love the "way of life". I would much rather live in a vibrant town with parking issues than a bunch of boarded up store fronts. Regarding the section "8" comments. How can you judge a person without meeting them? Wow, I wish I had that qualification in my personal tool kit but I don't. Is the general population of Collingswood so against the economic value the Lumberyard residents bring to the town that they allow themselves to be lead by the blind? To the best of my knowledge we pay our bills and taxes. And I haven't witnessed any prostitution, drug dealing or chop shops located in the Lumberyard. This is a great project with no more growing issues than any other multi-million dollar project. Grow up and give it a break!

RE: “We’ve never had an initiative to discourage apartment buildings; we’ve run out of space to build them,” he said.

What about all those incentives to decrease the number of multifamily units years back?? And isn't there a moratoriam on new multifamily? Technically they are not "apartment buildings" but still, this comment left me confused.

Maley said that any elementary-school-aged children who moved into the apartment complex would attend Garfield School, which has typically small classes, and that “the high school has the room” to accommodate any additional children who would attend as a result of renting an apartment in the new building.

“It won’t increase your taxes,” Maley said. “If you have 20 kids who come from there and they’re at all different grade levels, it’s not going to increase your costs.”

“It’s a double-edged sword,” Maley said. “It’s also a reason why you wouldn’t move in there with kids.”

Maybe it’s the heat but I don’t understand Maley’s statements. The children of apartment renters in the new building would attend Garfield School which has room to accommodate them. According to Maley, this won’t increase our (Colls residents’) taxes. Maley goes on to say “It’s also a reason why you wouldn’t move in there with kids.” I assume this ‘you’ means the potential renters and why wouldn’t they want to move in to the new building with kids?

What am I missing?

Pat, the $250 fee you cite is a different figure than what Kurt at the Lumber Yard office that is on the premise stated. I got $328 figure directly from him.

Congratulations...?...

One Road Town: There is no On site lumberyard office and no one named Kurt works or lives here. Pat is right. We also live in the lumberyard and our monthly fee is $250 as stated. What I find amusing it that people like to comment and share wrong information but don't attend the meetings. It was shameful that from the whole town of Collingswood only 60 people showed up. Lots of information was provided at that meeting but some didn't share all that they heard and twisted information around and the majority of the down didn't even bother to show up.

The on sitee office has been closed for over two years. The Lumberyard sales are all handled by Mainstreet Realty. Since they are paying the condo fees I would think they would know what they are paying. Social media is a great tool for all the townspeople and buyers when the info posted is accurate. Not used for name calling.