Move to the country.

Yeah my pic made the front page :)

Outside lights deter crime at night. Would not support a measure to limit their use in any way.

If anything I think we need more lights on the streets. Try going to the corner of Woodlawn and Maple and making a right turn onto Maple on a 1/2 cloudy night. You can barely see if there is anyone standing on the corner. There are so few street lights in this town minus Haddon Avenue. Take a look at some of the interior blocks it is as dark as the country in the middle of Madison or Knight Ave. It is dark.

As someone who has had numerous things stolen from our backyard over our 13 years, lights do make a difference. Since the lights have been installed covering our backyard nothing has gone missing. Maple Ave and all other roads that run parallel to Haddon become the road of choice for junkies, thieves, etc who are looking to make a quick score. Unless more street lights are put up, we don't need a law governing how much light we can shine on our own property.

Really? This is newsworthy? I can see it now. The Collingswood police inspecting the number and wattage of porch lights. Get a grip Ms. Cloud.

Am I the only one who thinks it is GREAT that a woman opposed to light is named Cloud? I support stars and saving energy and lower electric bills, but am not in favor of the government getting more involved in micromanaging my life.

It's unfortunate that the reporter chowse a headline that frames my debate this way. Dark Skies equal rampanmt crime. I'm NOT in favor of making people less safe. I DO believe that there are ways to direct lighting better to make everyone feel safe AND give us a sky full of stars. Also, I'll ask everyone. How would you feel if your neighbor had a very bright security light that he refused to adjust. So this bright security light is on ALL the time and your backyard is almost constantly bathed in bright light, forcing you to abandon any night-time activities on your property in summer, keep your shades constantly down - closing yourself in to escape your neighbor's security lights. Wouldn't you like some kind of ordinance so you could address this sort of light trespass?

Just because you are having difficulty with your neighbor, does not mean that there should be bright light legislation for the entire town. I think you need to deal with your neighbor. Personally, I love how dark it is here. Much better than when we lived in Philly.

Aileen, so what would you suggest to deal with a neighbor who is not interested in how their neighbors feel after many requests to stop his light trespass? Without some kind of ordinance, there is no recourse for someone who's property is being devalued because of this. If a neighbor decides they want to raise pigs in their back yard, there is an ordinance to stop them. This is basically the same thing.

Plus, just take a drive around town at night and see....it's so bright you cannot see the stars. Don't you want to see the stars?

I think compromises must be made...just because you (or your electrician) have installed a motion-detector spotlight, that is not the end of the job. These things are adjustable in brightness, directional aim, and duration. I think a lot of people just wire them up and don't do any finessing, so they're on at full blast all the time.

In all honesty, it wouldn't bother me, I'd feel that much safer at night. As regards to viewing the nighttime sky, we get a great view.

Isn't this two different issues? 1. Overall use of public and commercial lighting = can't see enough stars. 2. Residents who have bright security lights that may make neighbors feel uncomfortable in their own homes = can't sleep in your own bedroom.
As for #1, I don't think anything will be done - it's part of the flavor and security of the town - sorry this is an age where the stars may be hard to find. As for #2 - yes, perhaps we need to look at this if there are complaints of this nature.

OMG...are you people serious? The World of Camden is right up the street & all you have to worry about is whether or not you can see the Big Dipper outside your house.
Go to a planetarium.
At least if you were going to fight about bright lights let it be the headlights that have gotten way out of control.

So a couple neighbors turning off their porch light is going to cut down on light so we can see the stars? Suzanne, I think it's great you want your grandson to see the stars but we live 4 miles from the 5th largest city. (Please see satellite map of the NE at night). Getting 10 neighbors to turn there 45 Watt bulb off is not going to allow you to see Pluto
http://www.ouramazingplanet.com/3001-northeast-lights-satellite-image.html

Are we going to ask Philadelphia to turn their lights off?thats the only way we'll see stars.

Listen , she just wants the town to talk about it.... But I have to agree to some extent my neighbor lights there whole back yard up at night , which is there right however their lights light up the whole back side of my house and in my bedroom window at night . Getting people to learn to install lighting properly can't be a bad idea can it ???

I support you, Suzanne.
I'm not sure about legislation as an answer but I am open to options.

Darkness exists with reason, and as far as the circadian rhythm is concerned, a very good reason. Despite feeling unaffected by light pollution, you might be surprised how better rested you feel after a night in complete darkness. Heavy curtains are the best defense for this.

But the issue is tricky. Crime is a problem. Aren't all the world's problems equally if not more convoluted? Let's thank the brave among us for making 'controversial' arguments. This could change our lives in ways so subtle it's hard to imagine the benefits. Which makes it equally subtle to understand. Change is not easy, does not take one person, and isn't completed overnight.

Let's all continue to be open-minded, and at the very least: compassionate!

"Beetlejuice" is a movie; "Betelgeuse" is a star in the constellation Orion.

Sorry but I have to disagree with the assessment of houses and yards being bathed in lights. I love to walk and do so frequently and have never seen what Ms. Cloud describes. I mix up my walking routes all the time and have always encountered darkened streets where I have actually almost tripped a few times because of the absence of light. I also think about one morning when I left my house extra early -- in the pitch dark -- and how our garage security light came on to show a man trying to break into our neighbor's car. The man dashed off when the light came on and we saw each other. Had it not been for our light, which went off after 20 seconds, and my presence, it's quite likely our neighbor's car would have been burglarized, perhaps stolen.

My car was broken into during Sandy and they clearly went around the back of my house to see what else they could steal. The security light went on and scared them. Game, set, match. Sorry but if I want to see the stars, I'll google them or move away from the city. I would MUCH rather see money spent on fixing up the overgrown green space around newton Lake Park and show caseing the site like it should be. I say MORE lights for safety.

i cannot believe there is an article about this.

I'm all for more lights try living across from Knights Park when windows can be left open. Say around 2:00am and you hear kids screaming in the park . Maybe that would be a good place to look at the stars .

I don't want to see the stars when I am driving, I'd like to concentrate on the road. I'd actually be in favor for more lighting along Atlantic ave.

With all due respect, I find it a bit ridiculous to live in a place like Collingswood and then complain about not being able to see stars clearly at night. It is a bit like moving to Miami and then complaining about not getting any snow. We live in a highly urbanized area and light comes with that lifestyle.

Without minimizing Ms. Cloud's opinion and/or wishes, this truly strikes me as a resident having an issue with their neighbor and trying to solve that issue with new ordinances and a red herring involving not being able to enjoy nature. If stars are desired, perhaps a trip to Knight Park or Cooper River Park is in order. Both are quite dark at night and offer wide views of the nighttime sky. I certainly can sympathize with Ms. Cloud, as I am a big fan of astronomy, but I moved to Collingswood with open eyes.

After reading all of your opinions, it is a shame that most of you believe that 1.) I live in Collingswood so I should just forget about seeing a night sky of stars. 2.) It's just one neighbor being insensitive, so why should anyone care? 3.) Crime will increase if we don't have everything lit up like an airport. This is why I really wanted a discussion about this, a reasoned discussion rather than knee jerk reactions. Other towns around the country have implemented this idea with much success and turned it into a plus for a town (and saved energy money to boot). As far as living near Philly so we shouldn't expect to see any stars...not so. We won't see the Milky Way like you would in Montana, but we'd see more. Go to certain areas of Cherry Hill and see if I'm right. As far as insensitive neighbors, why would anyone want to have a someone call the police every time lights are being used as weapons...yet again, using scarce resources (the police) for problems that could be solved by a simple ordinance. And as far as crime, let's look at some studies that have been done to see if an uptick in crime is a result of more ecological ways of using light. Please note, I'm not saying folks can't have security lights...I'm saying they could be installed better to alleviate light trespass and pollution. I have approached the mayor about this and sent him some research. I haven't heard from him yet, but I hope to soon. Let's just talk about this, okay?

On my drive home last night, I could not find a single instance of "light pollution", or "lights being used as weapons". Collingswood did not look "lit up like an airport". I did note that things seemed rather dark and perhaps one reason for recent crime is that homes could use more lighting.

Wow, amazes me what ends up being "news." I cannot believe you'd want an "official ordinance" for bright lighting, that to me just sounds mildly insane but in the same respect I applaud you for having so much free time in your life to address what you feel is important. I still cannot get over the fact that a majority of what you're feeling has stemmed from your neighbor's lighting, and you claim you did address him/her about it. I would attribute it to the notion that sometimes in life, you just cannot have everything your way. We're all adults, and you, as a responsible adult of your community went to your neighbor and discussed the lighting on their property, and then they chose to not do anything about it, well then as unfortunate as it may be, oh well. We all have neighbors, and sometimes the relationships are not favorable ones, it's just how it goes, sort of like family, which is why in life you can pick your friends. In any event, I cannot believe you went to the mayor with this, for not only is it a cowardly move from the truth of what is creating a disturbance to you, you in turn take up more of the mayor's time with a matter that is not at all that important. I'm sorry, but I cannot see the value to the town as a whole from this "ordinance" being pursued and enforced. I think it's great you want to see stars, I do, but you are addressing it in all the wrong ways. Good luck in your quest, and if this doesn't work out I recommend the Fels Planetarium.

Lets not waste the mayors time. The ones that will be called to enforce the ordinance will fall on the hands of our police department anyway. Its just silly...is anyone going to NOT buy a house in Collingswood because their view of the night sky isn't clear??? This is a complete waste of passion & time.

Oops, mentioned brightness, aim and duration but forgot the most important setting...sensitivity! Admittedly this takes trial-and-error patience to get right if you don't want to unnecessarily disturb your neighbors. But what the heck, it's easier to just let it come on directed right in next-door's windows at every falling leaf, cat walking through the yard or wind gust, right?

Suzanne, I think you'd be better off making your case for an ordinance if you omitted the "seeing stars" portion of your proposal. I don't think most people would be against reasonable restrictions on the amount & caliber of light weapons to reasonable levels on their own property, limiting the collateral damage to their neighbors. The whole seeing stars thing, being as close to Philadelphia and considering the densely populated area of Collingswood and surrounding area is a little counterproductive...but I like your intentions.

http://cops.usdoj.gov/Publications/e1208-StreetLighting.pdf
Can we change the Poll to ask - What is a more important issue in Collingswood: 1)Crime, or 2) Circadian Rhythms?

This is one of the most commented-on articles in a long time, and it seems overwhelmingly that the opinions are on the side of 'this is not a problem' or 'this is just your problem', to 'there should actually be more lighting.'

This is more a story on civility, and conflict resolution with neighbors, than about seeing stars. I think we know this even if it is not admitted openly. Suggest this [http://www.darksky.org/outdoorlighting/74-manufacturers] to you neighbor, or offer to buy them one yourself.

Should this be a genuine crusade to bring starry skies back to this area, than join a club like the NJ Astronomical Association, or the International Dark Sky Association, and fight on under a legitimate banner and strategy, and more power to you. But I think you will find that Collingswood is not a reasonable/strategic place to focus that strategy. [http://policy.rutgers.edu/ceeep/eds/maps/Munic_Absolute_MWh_Usage.jpg]

Ms. Cloud, I think you are oversimplifying a number of the opinions posted here. I also think you are being just a bit hyperbolic comparing Collingswood to an "airport" and equating light to "weapons".

I have to admit that I am at a loss to think of a single spot in town where light can be described as excessive. A reasonable example may be the board office at Zane North (which someone mentioned earlier) but I think we would all agree that security lighting at our schools is essential.

I have no problem talking about any issue and the great thing about living in a small town like Collingswood is that issues like this, really any issue, are easily discussed if people are willing to take the time (rather than just complain on Patch). For all the flak he takes around town, Jim Maley is infinitely approachable and responsive. You might not like the answers you get but you do get them.

Suzanne, I truly hope there is a solution that will make you happier to live in town but I would be ardently opposed to any ordinance that governs me leaving my porch lights on at night for security just because one of my neighbors cannot see Cassiopeia while walking the dog.

1:23 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
I agree, some people should at least feel bad for her plight. neighbors suck sometimes and maybe this was just her way of trying to get attention for her issue.go to the bottom of Lees LANE at newton creek and come up lees LANE and the back of Froggies house looks like a circus is going on....now it doesn't bother me it is just an observation but if I lived there I would be pissed.

oh by the way I noticed they were out tonight!!!!

Don't look into the light, Carol Ann!

It would seem logical that only those who love darkness would find light to be a pollutant.

I'm truly sorry to have brought this up at all. As someone who has lived and volunteered in Collingswood since 1984, I really thought folks would have been more sympathetic to a neighbor with a problem and to a discussion about improving the lighting in our town aesthetically. Apparently I was totally wrong. Forget it.

Suzanne, you wanted a debate. How is it a debate if one is not allowed to have contrary opinions? Why are opposing opinions considered attacks? Are we all supposed to agree?

One solution may be to encourage the local government to install LED lights. They focus light downward, causing much less overspill, and give good lighting where it is needed.

They're more expensive to buy, but cost much less to run. Birmingham (UK) City Council replaced 95,000 old style street lamps with LED, and estimated that they would halve their street lighting bill.

The streetlights are much dimmer than they were years ago, especially the amber ones. I fail to see the benefit of focusing the light downward, and the worry about "overspill" seems rather counter-intuitive. Ideally you want to light the streets for safety, and want as much of them lit as possible. Not just security, but safety is also sacrificed when light is seem as some sort of threat, since it's tricky navigating broken sidewalks in near darkness.

I dont think you understand ....she was trying to bring her own problem to this

I don't think an ordinance should be an issue, I think common courtesy should be a bigger issue ! Yes, a 25 watt bulb will deter a criminal/ prankster. I do not think it is necessary to put in 60 watt bulbs or larger in an outside fixture especially HUGE FLOOD LIGHTS. They are intrusive on neighbors rights to 'quiet enjoyment' of their own properties . This is Collingswood for crying out loud, New York City has better respect for light pollution in Central Park than people do here ! I had neighbors that kept superbright flood lights on constantly at night... No consideration and I never, ever saw 1 person use the back yard in
10 years . So what is the point ?

The point is security and peace of mind! Although mine has a light sensor so if someone or my favorite Racoon comes to visit, I know someone is out there.

A neighbor across the road has a security light on the rear corner of her house. The sensitivity is such that if a firefly alights on a blade of grass, the security light comes on - and it's as bright as a klieg light. All night long this flashing light bathes my bedroom in brightness. I can't imagine what it's like for the folks whose yard abuts hers. There is no point in asking her to make any adjustments. She can't even be arsed to bring in her trash bins.

The off and on at the flicker of a firefly says the owner has the sensor set too high. Mine truly tells me when someone is out there in my yard. Also my light is yellow and points out only 12ft around. Never gets near a neighbors yard. I think alot has to do with the neighborhood you are in as well. If your homes are close together then a neighbor could see the light.

Just HOW many rooftop Margarita parties have to suffer before something is done about this?! Enough is enough! Keep fighting the good fight.