this is america, land of the free(or so they say). aslong as you our in our american classrooms you should participate in the pledge of allegiance.

You live in this country or come to this country from what ever other country to live here, you respect this country and the people that lost their lives to make what it is today --FREE-- that's why people come here. I came here for a better life and I respect it, maybe Chelsea should go to live in Iraq

Students do actually have the right to pray in schools, provided it's not disruptive (similar to the pledge rule). The schools simply don't have the right to institute prayer or sponsor it in any way.

Kids have the right to pray all they want. They're just not asked to pray anymore by their school leaders. Is that really what you want, Patty? Who decides to which god they pray? Can I decide?

I love this country. I don't follow our leaders blindly, though. And I certainly don't abide to a pledge that doesn't respect my beliefs. Which god are we under, exactly? Who gets to pick?

@ Sunny...I'm pretty sure its Jebus

All real 'Mericans love da Jebus, don't you know that?
Unless they're Jewish...and only some Jews are real 'Mericans. Its all very complex. I think Sarah Palin is the only one who can tell us exactly how it all works.

To be fair, Ron, the student says her objection is to the divine aspect of the pledge and not the mortal sacrifices of the veterans who upheld it.

I do not understand why you even have to say this pledge EVERYDAY , I mean judges are not sworn in EVERYDAY, the President isn't sworn into his office EVERYDAY , one time is fine, daily dosing of this sounds more like brainwashing than loyalty to your country.

I hear your perspective, GFY, and I'm not weighing in on her approach to the issue; I just wanted to clarify the stated cause of her complaint.

"Atheists try to impose their will on others more than any organized religious group."

Kind of ironic that you'd say that, given the situation here. Its theism that is sanctioned by the state here, not atheism.

Wow. We're 80 something percent Christian. There are missionaries all over the world trying to convert people to Christianity. There are christians trying to introduce creationism into schools. Buying votes on gay marriage, stem cell research, adoption laws, surrogacy laws, they have radio shows, tv shows, a church in every corner, god on the money and the pledge of allegiance... and atheists impose MORE than any organized religious group? Under which rock are you living, sir/madam? You should come out every once in a decade.

how is she trying to impose her will on others? she wasn't demanding that everyone not stand, was she?

Bravo, Sunny, bravo!!!

Organized religions are all cults, they live to usurp personal freedom of individuals.

I'm just curious - What does "GFY" stand for?

Not Gary Francis York

This girl, and atheists in general, certainly don't do that. She is not trying to make everyone to sit, only herself. Theists on the other hand are constantly forcing their views on everyone: abortion, contraception, marriage, and on, and on.

I use a debit card!

So the problem is her, then. Not the fact that we have god printed on the money? Seriously, man. Think for a second if all of this was a reference to another god. One in which you didn't believe. Separation of church and state protects the believer just as much as the non-believer. It's all fine and dandy to you (as long as it's your god we're making room for). It's the damn atheist's fault for not being understanding of your personal beliefs. Go to church if you want to pray so much. Leave your personal god out of everyone else's lives. That's all we're asking. You don't have to stop make-believing. We'll make sure your right to be an infantile sheep is protected.

Let me give you a more substantive reply.

Its a matter of principle. The constitution of this fine country says that the government will respect no establishment of religion.

All I'm asking is that we actually live up to our ideals, and to our constitution.

Why, Seth, that's very patriotic of you! :)

I'm basing my comments on what you're arguing. I have nothing else to go by. And yes, people like you arguing for our just respecting the fact that we have references to a specific deity in government sponsored documents makes your responsible. If you're not part of the solution, you might just be part of the problem. Don't cop out saying you didn't do it. We didn't own slaves, either, but I sure hope we're all fighting against racial discrimination.

Well...I also used the establishment clause : P.

Jack, I'm sorry, but I think you need a refresher in US history. The Declaration of Independence is one of the few documents that contain a reference to a "Creator." Nowhere in the Constitution do you see the words God or Creator. There are many other documents and quotes from the Founding Fathers that make it clear that America was never intended to be a Christian nation (nor any religion). Google is your friend. The constitution (and more specifically the Bill of Rights) was written SPECIFICALLY to protect the minorities from the democracy. I'm sorry you don't get to push your personal views onto me (anymore than you already do), but be thankful it goes both ways.

Sunny, fortunately I do not have to rely on "Google" for history. Your claim that the Declaration does not refer to "God" is often put out there by atheists, but it is simply incorrect. The opening paragraphs of the Declaration do in fact refer to "God," who is the Creator. Your claim that I'm "push[ing]" my "personal views" is ironic in light of the fact that atheists insist constantly on pushing their secular progressive views on the rest of us. Indeed, they want to rewrite the fabric of American history.

Uh, read what I wrote again. I said the Constitution makes no mention of any deities. I specifically said the Declaration of Independence is one of the few documents that make mention of a creator (it doesn't even use the word God). Again, google is your friend.

Sunny,
I'm not sure what Declaration you're reading. The U.S. Declaration does in fact reference "God," the "Creator" and "Divine Providence." Perhaps you need to hit Google again? The Constitution does not reference God because it is a code of conduct, and Americans at the time were deemed to be sufficiently religious and moral not to require instruction on their obligations to God in the fufillment of that code. The Declaration, on the other hand, was a statement of the fundamental beliefs of the framers, directed towards a Crown viewed as nonreligious and immoral.

Good god, man! I said the declaration does indeed mention a creator (and Nature's God, which confirms their deism. Go read up Espinoza and get back to me). Go also read a number of quotes from the Founding Fathers rejecting religion (some specifically Christianity). Also read the Treaty of Tripoli. I'm not googling for you. I'm out. These comments are making me lose faith (pun intended) in humanity.

The founding fathers also left slavery intact. They did a lot of things right, but they also left some room for improvement.

Nice to see that the god reference in the Constitution is about my god...Fluffnugget. Fluffnugget has brought prosperity to all of mankind , unlike those who worship the deity from the middle east....all that god does is condone those that divide, and condemn people that do not think like they do, and then blame them for all the ills in the world. Nothing but trouble, so I am happy that Fluffnugget is here for me, and my choice to worship him is protected by my country.

If our founding fathers wanted the US to be a 'christian nation', why is the first line in the first amendment 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion'? Why did Jefferson coin the phrase 'separation of church and state'? Why did George Washington's administration draft the Treaty of Tripoli, which stated 'the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion', and why would John Adams sign such a provision?

The Declaration refers specifically to "Nature's God", a Deistic term, not a Christian one, which makes sense, since Jefferson had strong Deist leanings and he wrote the lion's share of it.
But the Declaration is not our nation's Supreme Law of the Land. That would be the Constitution. The Constitution does not mention Jesus, the Bible, Christianity, etc. Other than the date system used, it doesn't mention anything about deities. That would be utterly impossible to be accidental, as many of the signers were deeply religious Christians, some even educated theologians or ministers. They were much more nuanced than many of today's ideologues, however. The only mention in the Constitution proper of religion is that no religious test shall be given to hold office in the US. Then there's the 1st Amendment, which contains the Establishment clause and the Free Exercise clause. The phrase "wall of separation of church and state" has been used since the earliest 1800s as a shorthand for the combined effect of these clauses. It was used by many of the founders themselves. It was an alliance of Deists with very conservative Christians that gave the wall its backing. In a stroke of brilliance, these often deeply religious people realized that only through secular governance could each sect be protected from the others, religious and non-religious citizens alike being protected by the wall enshrined in our secular Supreme Law of the Land.

She's sitting down to make a statement about something she believes. That's the beauty of this country. That's what it's all about. It sounds like you're being pretty unpatriotic by asking her to just go along with it and not make a fuss about it. Since it seems obvious by your ad hominem attack (that means insulting someone) that you've run out of argument, I'll digress. Cheers!

So if the phrase "if you don't want to say the word, don't say it" applies, then isn't it just as logical to believe "if you don't want to stand, don't stand"?

rote recitation and directed gestures do not necessarily equal "respect" - just adherence...nor do they tell us anything about an individual's actual level of respect.

LOL! I can see by your inability to properly reply within context that you're a moron (see? ad hominem). And now we can all see that. Btw, I'm 36. With 3 kids. My wife says all the time I'm really immature, so I'm not totally dismissing your accusations.

"But you don’t get attention doing that."
" Just people looking for an issue"
"But to make a big issue of standing up to show respect for your country is just looking for attention"

"Just trying to liven up the place."

Soooo..... what you're saying is that you were just looking for attention.

Sunny. Stop stalking me. You are making me uncomfortable.

Can't you respect hers by simply allowing her to sit?

Joe, your last paragraph is spot on. Kudos.

By the way, does anyone believe Ms. Stanton is the only student in America who is not reciting the pledge? Likely not. But, she is the only one in this area who has us talking about her thanks to EyeWitless News. So, her mission is accomplished and I applaud her. Everyone deserves their 30 seconds of fame.

"From thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel" (Gen 49:24)
"I am the good shepherd; and I know mine own, and mine own know me .... and I lay down my life for the sheep" (Jn 10:14 f)
"I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad" (Mt 26:31; Mk 14:27)

And some 500 and more quotes that refer to God's followers as sheep. There's a reason for that. Sheep follow. Blindly. They don't question what they're being told. They just do it. It's a bad idea in religion and it's a bad idea in politics. It's why this country is so great. We are so free to question that which we don't find right and fair. I would hope, too, Ms. Stanton is thankful to those who made it possible for her to practice her civil liberties. I'm thankful to her, too, that she's using it well.

Seth, you just made a hard right into crazy town.

Invoking Godwin's Law this late in the game?

Well it wasn't meant to be...

Yea, you know teenagers. Never having fully formed opinions and beliefs! They are the worst!!

Megan, Kathy and Carolyn,

You have this completely correct. But kids don't usually choose to be the center of attention unless prompted. This seems more like an un-American parent and a willing and un-American media came together to stick their thumbs in our collective eyes. The media, more liberal than not, loves this kind of stuff...it makes them feel superior and that they are making a difference. This girl has every right to sit during the pledge but she obviously wasn't content to express herself privately. She wants everyone to look at her and the media has obliged her. These foolish do-gooders who report this crap are more responsible than the little twit.

David,
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm?s=t
Love,
Another twit

That's right. Stand up for 'Merica in ALL CAPS!!!!

LOL @Seth

She sat down during the pledge because the pledge contains references to a deity; a clear violation of separation of church and state, and now she's a communist and a marxist. Man, I'm glad people with your views are going the way of the Dodo.

David, I don't believe that Collingswood High School provides birth control pills or abortion services.

This is so silly. "Under God" was ADDED to the Pledge in the 1950s. I t was NOT in the original 3 versions of it. Give me a break. You don't even know your own history, people. It was an afterthought.

its a free country. you can stand for the flag. she doesn't have to. guess what...its all good.

What I don't get is why you seem to think you're better than everybody else.

I also blame the MyFace, and access to the Google Machine after the streetlights go on. And Vatican II.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

This isn't anything, new, David. The pledge and the addition of "under God" (in the 50's, mind you) has been a legal contention ever since. It was introduced by a religious organization (the Knights of Columbus) to a very religious president (Eisenhower) during a religious awakening in the country. It's been ruled unconstitutional by lower courts.

" the Court held that students are also not required to stand for the Pledge."

She's just exercising her rights as an American, man. It's the law. Nobody's forced to stand for the pledge. This girl might or might not a great person. She might rescue puppies for a living and take them to visit cancer patients in hospitals. You don't know anything about this person and yet you're attacking her character because she chose to exercise her rights. Get a grip, man.

Yeah, I'm starting to see that.

Sunny,

I said she has a right to do whatever she wants. The question is, why? I say it's just her and a sympathetic media that covers such things trying to push it to demonstrate some feign unhappiness with the country. To believe that there is just genuine good intentions here is to be naive. But like you say, it's a free country.

Theporterfromcollingswood,
If you don't like what I wrote don't answer it. You're looking more like a "troll" than me. (-:

Dave

Oh, and you aren't allowed to speculate - because he'll remind you that you don't really know what happened and are operating off your biases.

And then he turns around and speculates endlessly...showcasing his biases. But that's OK. He does't see the contradiction.

It's like talking football with a Cowboys fan.

Carolyn,

You kind of came out of the closet with this one. What was so painful about the Pledge? Did you wear a nose ring? Other stuff pierced?

You showed all of them...what a hero you are. How you doing in life these days?

Dave

David,
Actually I just have my ears pierced. Bazam!!
Also I live under a rock. See ya around!

Nick,

Nose rings like Carolyn? Tattoos? Member of a rock band?

That's great...or "squat proudly and be counted".

Aww DV made a friend!

Nick,

You know the government will pay for you to have those tats removed. Let me guess...a big heart with "mommy" in the middle? Or maybe a snake swirled around a guitar with "Carolyn" on it? (-:

Dave

How do you know she doesn't?

It's like a Yakov Smirnov act.

I hear they also turn students gay. FOR FREE!!!

Justin,

Then you should have no problem supporting those who criticize her too.

While those criticizing her do have a right to free speech, which I do support, they might as well be arguing that drinking alcohol is illegal.

Thers a lot of men & women considering a military career but there too scared to go thru with it because a war may break out, if everyone that have served or are serving now just sat there and considered joining the military we would be flying some other flag. It's not until friends and family die around you that you see the importance for honoring the flag. Stand and honor OUR flag ! !
Ron D.
(Vietnam '67/'68)

AMEN !!!!

That is a great suggestion.

This would be a good idea for everyone not serving or married to someone who is. We haven't been asked to sacrifice one thing since 9/11, beyond our time and patience when we fly.

We were merely asked to go shopping.

Maryann, that would be perfect...better yet let them see the planes coming into Dover AFB with the bodies of the soldiers coming home draped in the "American Flag" ! !

Get a job.

I'm so glad you finally realized that your going back and forth on the Patch was inappropriate. Like you say, the Patch is not a "personal playground". You were taking up a lot of space, and what you were saying made no sense to other readers and was a waste of time for us to read.

What a great and obvious bit of information overlooked by everyone. This fact may shed some light on this whole affair. I wonder if this young "rebel" wasn't encouraged or put up to this like Sandra Fluke was to appear before congress to complain that she needed to have her contraception paid for. Or at the very least she may have seen all the attention given to "that" sick little radical and wanted some for herself.

John Q. Public....nice save.

Hope she's a senior...but if not thats O.K. also, she may be able to graduate and be legal drinking age the same year ! !

Steve, yours is the best post of them all. Clear, concise, to the point and absolutely correct.

Word